You Can Have a Healthier Volunteer Team

Show Notes

In this episode

Volunteers drive ministry forward; and as church leaders, building a healthy team of volunteers is a primary responsibility. In this episode of the Church Juice Podcast, Jeanette and Bryan talk with Mary Ann Sibley, founder of MatterSpark, about ways to recruit, train, and care for volunteer teams in any church ministry.

Our guest

Mary Ann Sibley, founder of Matter Spark

Born and bred in the south, Mary Ann was never invited to church until she was 40 years old. After working in corporate America for over 15 years in commercial lending and then CFO of an international company, Mary Ann met Jesus which led to a curve ball career move, leading a volunteer ministry that grew from 30 to over 1,000 volunteers. Some say she should come with a warning label because she oozes so much "energy and enthusiasm that your team will never be the same again." That's simply her passion to help church leaders build healthy volunteer cultures.

Links and resources

• Webinar: "Small Steps You Can Take to Build a Healthy Volunteer Culture"
• Matter Spark
• Join the Church Juice community
• Support the work of Church Juice

Transcript

Jeanette:

Small groups are launching in two weeks and you still need volunteers to lead at least half of the groups. You've reached out to all of your usual suspects and you're beginning to think it's not a coincidence that all of your phone calls are going to voicemail. Sound familiar? Volunteers are a vital piece of the mission of your church, or maybe they are the mission. We'll be talking about all things volunteers on today's episode.

Bryan:

Hey, friends, welcome to another episode of the Church Juice podcast. Whatever your title or role is at your church, we are here giving you community, along with marketing tools, resources, and just network that you need to be successful in your role. I'm joined as always by my incredible co-host, Jeanette Yates. And we are here, what are we doing Jeanette? What are we here for?

Jeanette:

Energizing church communications. Woo-woo.

Bryan:

That's right.

Jeanette:

Oh my goodness.

Bryan:

Welcome.

Jeanette:

And yeah, I was going to say, thank you. And speaking of energized, I'm so energized about this guest that we have today. She's one of my good Instagram pals, Mary Ann Sibley. In addition to being my Instagram friend, she's also the owner of MatterSpark. She's a co-host of a podcast called Moxie Gals.

She loves the beach, a good book, quality time with her family. Some have said she should've come with a warning label because her enthusiasm and energy is contagious, as you can tell, because we were talking pre-recording and she got me so hyped. I'm honored to welcome our guest today, my good friend and fellow Moxie Gal, Mary Ann Sibley. Hey, Mary Ann.

Mary Ann:

Hey. I don't think anyone can hype you up any more than you already are, Jeanette.

Jeanette:

Well, yes.

Bryan:

Speaking truth.

Mary Ann:

I think that's why we get along so well.

Jeanette:

Yes, probably.

Mary Ann:

Poor Bryan.

Bryan:

Awesome. Well, why don't we just dive in? We are talking about volunteers this month. So how are you, or why, I guess, are you so passionate about volunteers and healthy volunteer culture?

Mary Ann:

Because they're people. When I think about that question, which is really good. I could talk for days. I won't. When I think about when I was in that role in church leading volunteers, it was a shift from a lot of strategy, and planning, and processes, and flow charts, because I'm all about that. I love that.

Bryan:

I love a good spreadsheet.

Mary Ann:

But what really got my... Don't you? I'm the Excel spreadsheet queen in my family. But what I had to learn the hard way, God was teaching me was, these are people. They matter. And so one of the things I really, really worked hard and pounding that drum, that your volunteers are not there just to serve the mission. They are the mission. They are the mission, and we forget that. We think of them as names on a list and cogs in a wheel.

But through serving is where I grew to know who God was. That's where I learned about God's word, through serving. Yes, the sermon. Yes, Bible study. But when we are actually physically and in the midst of doing what God's called us to do, so many good things happen there.

Jeanette:

I love it. You're like, "Um, I'm passionate because they're people." The end. Because that's true, and yes.

One of the things that you did in your church was lead a team of volunteers. And some things that you talk about sometimes is, it's really hard to have a good, high-functioning volunteer team. Maybe it's not hard. Maybe we just don't do it. But I want you to talk more about why you think that more ministry teams are not high-functioning. Is it because it's too hard, or what's missing?

Mary Ann:

It is hard, because people, again.

Jeanette:

Asking people.

Mary Ann:

I'm going to be the broken record, Bryan. People. And that's who Jesus came to die for, the people. And because we're people, it's hard. And I think when I work with churches, whether they have big teams... And I've attended churches, different sizes, and volunteered to serve there. And what I found hard was the people leading or the staff person wouldn't let go.

And I get it being on staff. So much is at stake, you believe. There's so much happening. It's Sunday, it's go time. And they would say the facade of, "Yeah, we're releasing," but I never saw it really into play because it's hard. The hard part to your question, Jeanette, is to let go. And I feel like we assume so much about volunteers. We assume, "Oh, they will never do that. Oh, they're not capable of doing that. Oh, they're so busy."

And when you really step back and realize God's plan and God's word says to equip the saints so that we can do it, if we do what his word says, he opens the doors and clears the path so that volunteers find healthy ways to do the things that we're trying to get done in our church.

Bryan:

Yeah, what I found too is, and I don't want to speak into this too much because that's why you're here, but what I found too is when I'm trying to lead teams where I should be recruiting volunteers, I end up doing a lot of it myself because it's just easier. Rather than spending the time equipping people to do ministry, I still have to get things done, so at the end of the day, I need to do it anyway.

Also, on the flip side I guess, there's also, I think, a little bit of a level of guilt maybe, or fear of asking volunteers to do much. I see that often too. You don't want to ask too much of them. But on the flip side, I think what you miss out in that opportunity is that people feel more ownership when you give them more responsibility.

Mary Ann:

And I think with that, Bryan, that fear, I would say clarity has to be part of that. So there's a difference between saying, "Oh, here's his big thing. I'm going to go grab Joe. Joe would be great. Joe, do these things." But you haven't provided clarity with, "Okay, how much of it, and where are the guardrails?" And so, when churches ask me, "Man, how do you get more people to serve on my ministry?", their ministry, my question back to them is, "What are you calling them to?"

So to do the work, to really think, "What are we going to be asking?," and you have done that work, which I know people don't think they have time, but three years later you're still looking for volunteers. So do it up front, pay me now, pay me later kind of thing.

And so, if you do the work up front, then you can be confident to ask someone, because you know that you're going to do it in a healthy way, a safe way, that kind of thing.

Bryan:

Yeah, that's really valid. And one thing that I've seen too, especially in the last year or so, or post-pandemic, I don't know, is that there seems to be, in conversations with a lot of ministries, there seems to be this continual need of the same level of volunteers or the same number of volunteers or whatever, or maybe even more. But more and more churches or ministries or whatever are having a difficult time filling those volunteer positions. What do you think about that? Have you seen that? What do you think?

Mary Ann:

I see it all the time. And what's interesting to me, I mean, nothing new here, is that the churches that are saying that, and I've gone and visited their sites, and they say, "Do you see these 20 people volunteers, Mary?" And I say, "I do." They go, "Well, they're not really volunteers. They're staff. So, we used to have twice this many as volunteers and now three of them." And they have an amazing church. And I'm like, "But are you doing anything different?"

And they feel like we have to do the same thing. But if this COVID and everything that's taught us and has revealed, I believe, the things that, or people are like, "Woo, escape hatch. I'm out. And I'm not coming back," we have to stop and take time to go, "Okay, if what we did before was barely working and they left and they're not coming back, instead of pointing fingers as to, 'They are not coming back,' we have to do the hard internal work of, what is it that, again, we're calling them to? How can we be doing something that's more efficient, and healthy, and valuable, and honoring?" And churches aren't doing it, and so people are like, "Looks like the same old thing. No, thank you."

Jeanette:

Well, that brings me to my next question, which is, let's pretend that I just got hired at my church in a brand new role, they've just created it: volunteer coordinator. My church is like, "Oh, is she volunteering to be the volunteer coordinator?" But let's say I'm in this new role. I'm a staff member maybe or maybe I'm a volunteer, a volunteer community coordinator, or maybe I'm a staff member. What advice would you give someone new to that role as they look to build a team that's healthy?

Mary Ann:

Okay, call me first. I'll talk to you for free for a consult. I just have to go back to what I did and what I talk to other people that come to me with that very same thing. You have to start with what you have. So I looked around and I'm like, "Let me really take a moment and think of, who are the few people that have the heart?" It's not that they just show up all the time, but maybe that's all you do have. Invite them in to a conversation. Get them a cup of coffee, buy them a donut, get around a table. If you have a whiteboard, that's gold. But you sit there and you go, "Tell me." I mean, that's what I did. "I'm here to serve you. How could I best serve you?" And they will tell you.

So you have to start there. You have to let them... Again, it's the people. We're serving them. They are the mission. They're showing up. They're on the front lines. I think back when I was in banking and commercial lending, and the tellers were the front line. And a lot of the commercial loan owners would just walk right by the tellers. But I learned they knew everything.

And they would go, "Mary Ann, come here." And I would go there and they would tell me things that, "Hey, be careful about this. So-and-so's coming in. This is what's happening." So in the same realm, go to your key few, even if it's one or two volunteers, and have a sit down and have that conversation. What is working here? What is it that you love? Why are you serving? And what is it that you are just tired but you're doing it anyways, and that's okay?

Bryan:

And I think we'll see this, I think, play out across the board too. But for someone who is... That's someone who's stepping into this position and just learning the ropes too. But what about the people, the church leaders who are listening now or watching, that have been in this for a while and they have a team of volunteers, they have those rhythms, they have schedules, they have all of this already in place, but they realize that there's something missing? What advice do you give to those leaders who are trying to figure out how to build a healthier team while building the plane while flying it kind of thing too?

Mary Ann:

How do we do this? I know. Well, you're right, Bryan, it's the same thing. It's the conversation. But I think when things seem to be working, because Sunday's come and gone and nobody's died, no catastrophes happened so you keep going, but you keep bumping up against the stress of it all.

I love when other church leaders can talk to other church leaders, not just me. It's good to know you're not alone and you always can learn something. And I think it is very healthy to do what I suggested from the beginning, invite people and have the conversation, but don't just do it one time.

So for the veteran, the long-time person, you've got to do that and you have to have a leadership planned. Here's the thing. It's discipleship, period. When we are linking arms with the people that are serving and we can really release responsibilities, not tasks, of like, "Hey, we would love for you to lead this area, this team," but it's not about telling Johnny how to park a car, although you will have Johnny park a car, or have someone be at a door.

You actually could be the person that will lead them to Jesus if they don't know, or build their relationship, or encourage them even more because this is what we're here for at the end of the day. At the end of the day, we want to have as much touch points and people connections so that anyone on our team serving will fall in love more with Jesus and with God's word. And it can't just be the one person. It can't just be the pastor, nor should it. It can't be the one staff person.

So we're just sprinkling that out. So for the veteran person, I'm like, "Do you have that leadership planned path in place of discipleship even for leading greeters?" I think that's the thing that pastors, when I talk to pastors and I say, "So, you probably have a path for people who want to be a deacon, or an elder, or lead a small group." And they go, "Oh yeah."

I say, "What if you have someone that's going to lead a group of greeters?" They look at me like... I say, "Well, you still have groups of people. Why would we waste that opportunity on a Sunday when you're there all day with them? Why would we waste that?" That may lead them to want to be in a small group, because right now they're like, "No."

Bryan:

Yeah, it's a sense of community, even serving, right?

Mary Ann:

Yep, community. Exactly, Bryan.

Jeanette:

Yeah. As you were talking about that, Mary, I was just thinking about when I served on a church staff and we were always talking about that front door, and getting people in to church, and getting them plugged in. That was our big phrase. And I'm like, "But hey, there could be somebody showing up every week and serving, and they are checked out. If you look at them on paper, they're a connected member of the church, but they don't have a personal relationship with Jesus."

And so I think what you're talking about is, even once we get people plugged in to serve, we still have to check in and make sure that there's discipleship going on in their lives to teach them more about who God is and why we call Jesus our savior and all those things. And I think that is something missing because we're so, we want to get them in that funnel or get them in that flow, whatever.

Anyway, speaking of all of this stuff that we've been talking about and just hearing you, every question you've answered today has just been, you've just lit up and you're really, really passionate and enthusiastic about this. And you're going to be leading a Church Juice webinar soon on this very topic. And we don't want to spoil it, but we do want to give people a little preview. What are you going to be presenting on when you're doing that webinar? What kinds of things can someone expect to learn from you?

Mary Ann:

So while it may look like, and I hate anything that says five steps to glory, whatever. It's like, "No." But there are some components, ideas and things that have a path that someone can take and go, "Oh, I can take this path."

But even I think what I'm really excited is that I'm going to share some of the barriers that are preventing people. We're so about, "Tell me what new thing to do." And I'm like, "Well, you're probably already doing something that you think is good and it's an actual barrier. To what? Keeping people from serving." So I'll talk about those as well.

Jeanette:

I like that.

Bryan:

I'm really excited for it.

Jeanette:

That sounds good.

Mary Ann:

Good. Me too.

Bryan:

Well, as we wrap up today's episode, there's one question that we tend to ask when we have a guest, and that is, what is your word of encouragement for church communicators? What's your word of encouragement for church communicators that are following today's episode?

Mary Ann:

And I love that you were very specific about who the audience is, because I was just at a conference with church communicators. I think that was all God completely. But I would encourage them that just remember that the work you're doing actually matters. And that the communication and story you tell is going to translate to the story that your people will tell.

God is still on the throne, it's his church, and if we really just boil it down to, what is the story that you want your people to tell? Because it is a beautiful, beautiful story, every small bit of it. The impact in the kingdom we'll get to see one day when we're all up in heaven.

Bryan:

That's really awesome. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Jeanette:

Once again, Mary Ann, reminding us of the point of all this.

Mary Ann:

The point. Thank you, guys.

Bryan:

So awesome. And I'm excited for the webinar too. One thing that we didn't really talk a whole lot about is what you do. So before we wrap up, why don't you actually tell people why we're talking to you about volunteering? Tell us about MatterSpark. And obviously, we'll talk about this in the webinar in a few days too, but introduce your ministry to churches and church leaders.

Mary Ann:

I love standing in a church next to a church leader and affirming them first, because they're always nervous. And then also, just being that person that says, "Have you thought of?"

And so I like to, what I say, I think small steps are more impactful or just as impactful as the big vision. So you may have a great idea, you may have zero idea. But I come alongside church leaders and just help them work through, talk through to their specific church and DNA of what would work in your church to encourage your volunteers and come up with something, and to get them healthy. As I tell them, I want Sunday to be the easiest day of the week for you. And it should be.

Bryan:

That's awesome. Thank you so much.

Mary Ann:

You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you.

Bryan:

Thank you for listening to the Church Juice podcast. If you haven't already, make sure you subscribe wherever you are listening today. It would mean a lot, too, if you took the time to leave us a review. That helps other church leaders find the podcast so we can continue to serve and support churches by energizing communications.

And by the way, we will, as we do every week, continue today's discussion in our Facebook group. You can find the link to our group, along with today's show notes, at churchjuice.com/podcast.

Jeanette:

The Church Juice podcast is a listener-supporter production of ReFrame Ministries, a family of programs designed to help you see your whole life reframed by God's gospel story. Church Juice is produced by Brian Haley, with postproduction by Minimal Media Company in Grand Rapids, Michigan. For more information about Church Juice, visit churchjuice.com. For more information on ReFrame Ministries and our family of programs, visit reframeministries.org.